latex screeding over ceramic tiles. Andy O'Hara. latex screeding over ceramic tiles

 
 Andy O'Haralatex screeding over ceramic tiles  2

Ceramic, porcelain or stone tiles can be installed over the top of the installed membrane using a suitable Mapei tile adhesive. Selection and Installation of Ceramic. Rich. 5Ltr at Screwfix. Re: Advice for self-levelling over old tile adhesive, using Wickes la SBR is a liquid bonding agent. If you are applying paint in a high-traffic area or an area with a lot of moisture, a protective coating is also recommended. For Indoor Use. USES Davco DW 1 may be used as a mortar additive for fixing. I did end up hacking up the tiles, the self-levelling compound came up too! My builder refused to take any responsibility. None of those apply to wall tiles, and the reduced weight of a thinner tile makes for easier installation. They only recommend pouring concrete over existing tiles if they are in sound condition and firmly affixed. 2. The contractor applied a layer of traditional cement-sand screed to a depth of 65mm and told me to wait 110 days for the screed to dry before calling the tiler. To flash the floor, the guys are using Kerabond mortar with Keralastic latex additive because it bonds so well. Resilient floorcoverings can be installed after just 4 hours and ceramic tiles in as little as 3 hours. screed or topping. MAPEI Technical Notebook(s): 1. One of those options is a new layer of ceramic tile. The dimension between the floor and threshold of the door is circa 20mm, so cant lay a very thick level of screed either, taking into account the eventual permanent flooring that will go on top. 6. laid for anywhere from 40-60 days after the screed is placed, dependent on screed thickness. For ceramic tiles up to 30cm x 30cm or porcelain tiles up to 10cm x 10cm you’ll only need a low grip adhesive. 2 - 12mm Application. Ensure the floor is fully dry - the residual moisture level should be less than 0. To flash the floor, the guys are using Kerabond mortar with Keralastic latex additive because it bonds so well. Pumped anhydrite floor screeds are not much dearer than ready-mix sand/cement, costing around £25/m3 (laid. Too much extra will probably make it useless. Submit your price for the work in a written change order and get signed and dated approval. Total Time: 2 wks, 1 day - 2 wks, 2 days. Strike the face of stubborn tiles to break them up for easier removal. Its consistency makes it particularly suitable for fixing large tiles and those with profiled backs. Walls: 4 mm in 2 m. Mix detergent with warm water. Abstract. Just to be sure you've seen my previous messages: I think the house was built in the 70s but may have been 60s; the tiles have been tested; we haven't had a professional look at the floor with the carpet etc removed but have had advice on "if the tiles are generally in. #3. It’s walkable in only 3 hours, receives ceramic, or stone tiles from 4 hours, and resilient floorcoverings from just 48 hours. Over plastic, semi-dry consistency traditional mortar beds (min 20mm thick) before beating in pavers and ceramic or stone tile in cold climate conditions. SR3 10mm. then a liquid membrane goes over this called ardex dpm 1c. Floating Floors. insulation board) Bitumen residue* * Best practice is to remove all bitumen. However 13 IS a Prime Number as it can only be. Start at a broken tile or between tiles where the grout has loosened. If you're laying Karndean over existing flooring, be sure it is properly prepared. The asphalt content lends mastic its black color. Use clean water and a mop to wipe the floor (remove the detergent residue). A common practice among Singaporean homeowners, overlaying tiles is the process of laying new tiles on top of existing tiles or vinyl flooring. 3. Hi Fred. UltraFloor Prime IT Multi-surface Primer is a moisture tolerant, water based acrylic primer, sealer and bonding aid, suitable for porous and non-porous substrates. Apply only a thin coat to avoid dripping. Self-adhesive vinyl tiles can be laid perfectly on the screed and liquid screed. Non-structural floor screeds shall be adequate for the location and intended use, and provide a suitable background for floor finishes. If nothing comes off, it’s fine to tile over. 13 Aug 2020. AS 3740-2021 – Waterproofing of domestic wet areas 3. Installation of Ceramic Tile in Swimming Pools,. As a result, it is not advisable to screed over asbestos floor tiles. They are also known as thin screeds, flow screeds, liquid screeds, pumped screeds, deep bases or deep fills. You can paint over any blemishes or missed spots that. com. They also flog a ply-backed insulation board but don't divulge how they glue it on!The Bottom Line. Reply to Kitchen Floor tiling on Latex Self Levelling Compound in the Floor Tiles area at TilersForums. Hi Fred. 181: 8 mm thick glazed tile + adhesive: 0. Pour the mixture. thank you very much for the clarification. Liquid Screed. Uplift existing tiles and latex screed subfloor, like another fitter said use Arditex NA that way there is no need to prime subfloor first, Saving you drying time and of course money. a solution that binds, regulates and fosters air flow in the base you’re going to apply. When the sheets are secure, spread thinset mortar on the seams, cover it with fiberglass cementboard joint tape and trowel another layer of thinset on top of the tape as if you were taping drywall seams. simple answer is no, this is mainly down to the adhesive failing underneath. Answer: This will depend on the type of tiles you are going over. 3. In 1986, a Field Report of the Ceramic Tile Institute of America (86-5-1) titled “Installing Ceramic Veneers with Latex Modified Mortar & Grouts” used the term “Latex Leaching. bournemouth Super Moderator. 6. Mixing and application of Nitotile GP shall be as follows; 20kg of Nitotile GP shall be mixed with 4. Answered 15th Oct 2019 Like 0. If so your marley tiles still need to be level or your new floor will bounce, creak and sound hollow etc. As well as regular upkeep, wood flooring often needs annual sanding and re-sealing to maintain its quality. The latex also allows the floor a certain amount of flex over time so this helps to prevent cracking and shrinkage. Definitions The following definitions are used in this document. Once traffic starts walking over it, those stresses start moving the tiles and eventually they pop off the floor and get. Hi, You can lay the carpet directly over the bitumen. Ideal for installing ceramic tiles, marble, slate and natural stone onto concrete, cement render, rendered brickwork surfaces or over existing tiles. Use before application of polymer-modified mortars over properly prepared sound, stable and nonabsorbent substrates including ceramic tile, natural-stone floors, glass tile, cement terrazzo, cement-based. Screw the sheets to the subfloor, using rust-resistant screws and spacing them 6 inches apart. Applying a semi-dry cementitious type of screed. g. Just make sure the tiles are solid. scraper to pry and scrape it up. LATAPOXY 300 Adhesive is a chemical resistant, epoxy adhesive that will bond to most sound, clean surfaces. Maximum gap measured with a slip gauge. Planning - Calculate the number of tiles - Setting out - Laying the vinyl tiles - After care. Please help !!! I've had a 4mm-5mm latex screed laid using mapei renovation screed as I was advised this was the best option for a final floor finish as I was only left with about 7-8mm to work with as a microcement floor I had laid had gone wrong. The mixed adhesive shall be applied over the protection screed to a thickness of 3mm up to 1 sqm at a time. Poor Workmanship. Back-buttering is not necessary. Tiles should be installed using a latex modified adhesive system, i. Screed is commonly set underneath timber, carpet, resin coating, natural stone, tile and vinyl flooring. The matt sits on top of insulation boards (10mm), which in turn sits on top of a concrete floor). Skill Level: Intermediate. Installing a damp proof underlay for concrete floors. Floor levelling compound is also known as self-levelling compound. VAT. Scotts Plumbing & Property Maintenance Limited. 4 Use a screed to level the. Step 6. Mapei prim grip is the grey primer. Floorcoverings can be installed after as little as 15 minutes. For a full flooring renovation, hacking is required to remove the existing tiles. To flash the floor, the guys are using Kerabond mortar with Keralastic latex additive because it bonds so well. There are three main types of screed – bonded, unbonded and floating. . Most of us who do lvts have been asked to lay over ceramic floor tiles. you will need to mix x1 bag of powder & x1 bottle of liquid per 5 mtr sq. If the existing slab is clean concrete - wet it, prime it with a cement slurry and lay a strong cement + sharp sand screed. Builders often refer to latex screed as a ‘levelling screed’ for this reason. 6N / mm2ARDITEX NA provides excellent adhesion to almost all substrates without the need to prime, including flooring-grade plywood, ceramic tiles, steel, and even over old bitumen adhesive residue. Because concrete has the potential to hit very high strengths, it is used across the construction industry for. UltraTech TILEFIXO is a polymer modified cement based high performance, high strength, high quality tile adhesive developed to fix tiles, Natural Stones over walls and floors. For bathroom wall tiles, it is important to take note of the material they are made from. The tiles will have to be screeded over before the LVT can be laid. 50 per square metre. Sounds like you need a suitable DPM, prime and screed. Hooe this helps. Perfect for using over ceramics. Lift a tile from time to time to check appropriate coverage and that there4. Self-adhesive vinyl tiles can be laid perfectly on the screed and liquid screed. 1-2007. Water or latex based screed. Cement screed flooring Singapore: pros and cons. The increased use of other dense layers over the screed, such as uncoupling, or crack-isolation membranes made of bitumen or plastics such as. Rich mixed up a 5 gallon bucket according to the directions and let it slake for 5 minutes before mixing it again. The system specified will depend on the room size and type, if fixed units are present, if a new floor base is being laid or what the existing sub floor is made of and the final floor covering. AS3958. Make sure you leave the screed to go off properly before laying the new vinyl tiles, Each screed has its own reccomendations so read the pack and follow the instructions. after removing existing tiles or where bricks/blocks are uneven. 322. Chances are there might not be a damp proof membrane under the tiles as well. Priming becomes even more of a necessity once you consider the amount of dirt, plaster, adhesive, and various. It can be applied to Stopgap levelling compounds, structurally sound, smooth, dry, absorbent subfloors of concrete and sand/cement screed and plywood (minimum 6mm flooring grade). These are available from most tile warehouses, builders merchants and screwfix New Vinyl Plank Flooring (Over Tile!) Now that I FINALLY have some decent current pics of the house since we moved in, I can share all about the luxury vinyl plank flooring we had put in right after we closed. JC Flooring Professional Carpet Fitting Service. 11. Decorative floor coverings can be installed after 4 hours and ceramic tiles can be applied after 3 hours. Scotts Plumbing & Property Maintenance Limited. We had the tiles tested and they definitely contain asbestos. 4 - Ceramic tile detached from a crumbly screed. Can anyone advise on best course of action?. Prime and smoothing compound then any LvT. Ordering and Purchasing. With an average labour cost of £11 per square metre, we arrive at a screed floor cost of £26. Latex levelling screed levels out uneven substrates leave a smooth surface to bond to. Self levelling screed levels out uneven substrates leaving a smooth flat surface to bond to. The function of a primer is to prepare the surface and increase the bond. If you are installing where existing floors have been removed, check that there are no traces of previous adhesive residue. Coverages provided are for estimating purposes only. If you're laying Karndean over existing flooring, be sure it is properly prepared. ABSTRACT The use of polymer/latex type additives that improve the performance of thin-set adhesives and mortars has been in common and increasing use since the 1960's. On ceramics I would go ardex na balls 1200 or a flexy screed 95 % of the time I go with a good coat of level flex ( balls 700 say you cant use on ceramics ) then a nice buff off and then a coat of balls 500 micro then lvt stuck in f46 ps. g. 5 Ltr. DON’T stretch the peel-and-stick tile too much when installing. Yes you can latex over ceramic tiles as long as the tiles have been installed to a good standard and you have no damp plus you have to use floor primer. Textiles can be found in fuse boxes behind the actual fuse. For the superior results, use a LATICRETE® Latex Fortified Thin-set mortar system (e. You’ll also see tile adhesive used as an underlayment beneath laminate flooring or. kitchen floor on concrete with ceramic tiles to be fitted on top. Tiles with ribbed or keyed back profiles should also be back-buttered to ensure complete coverage. flooring bloke New Member. Compound. Wet underfloor heating installation cost. camo Member I'm a bathroom fitter & have a small. 2. I'm wondering if anyone can help me please? I've just bought a 70's house which has thermoplastic (Marley) tiles laid to the kitchen and utility. JC Flooring Professional Carpet Fitting Service. It can be applied over virtually any substrate such as old adhesive residues and ceramics. laminate is ok. Work the chisel under the tiles, forcing them loose. Systems,. . our kitchen floor is ceramic tiles which are pretty old now and have lots of chips in them, making it look horrible and dirty all the time. e. What's the best latex / screed to cover ceramic tiles. We get loads of sub floored Ashphalted as it’s great for a Dpm and building the levels up from parquet wood being taken up. If the height is permissible, installing a screed is an option. If your tiles are fairly level than scrape your trowel over the floor to apply a very thin coat on the surface of the tiles while infilling the channels. When laying vinyl, ceramic tiles, carpet and other floor coverings. 3 Step 3: Stacking Tiles: 6. If the existing concrete is dirty you will have to use some self-levelling compound which includes latex. thank you very much for the clarification. All waxes or sealers must be removed, and patching/leveling or embossing must be brought to a flatness of 3/16” in 10’. of the adhesive, screed and waterproofing compounds onto the surface. III. In this video I show how to self level a floor using s. Next, with a brush or roller, apply high-gloss or semi-gloss latex. Used to smooth and level floors in preparation for laying a wide range of floor coverings on top which is important as this base layer will effect the overall finish you get from the project. Answered 5th Apr 2021. Cement screed flooring is inexpensive. any good floor layer will be able to screed out a 5mm dip in your. Resilient floorcoverings can be installed after just 4 hours and ceramic tiles in as little as 3 hours. The floor leveler will fill in previous grout lines and make the floor level for the tile over tile application. Important: Nothing should cover isolation joints or fill expansion joints except caulk. SikaCeram® StarGrout Epoxy based grout for joints from 1 to 15 mm width. Another tradesman said they could do it without screeding because they are. Fiona_cooks New Member. There are vinyls which let your floor breathe like Altro expresslay but as you have already got your vinyl then one way of doing it to be safe from raising moisture is -. With a floor leveling compound, the smooth subsurface is easy to create. “Attend to the water damage as soon as possible as water leaks will cause damp patches on the ceilings of rooms below the installation and this leads to peeling paint and costly repairs,” she says. a screed should be used prior to fitting any amtico or LVT (luxury vinyl tile) flooring. Lay it over your floor and lift the low end until the bubble is central. For wet areas such as. If flooring is applied directly over the ‘young screed’ there is a risk of development of moisture related de-bonding of the adhesive and blisters in the vinyl or coating. com. Leak detection - The use of fugitive dyes such as food coloring or proprietary leak detection products in conjunction with scuba diving equipment are an effective method to trace any leakage detected during flood testing. In my haste to get started, I ripped up the old carpet and underlay finding thin tiles that easily pried off the floor. However, with unsatisfactory fixing practices or in certain climatic conditions, moisture expansion in excess of 0. Any difference in levels at the doorway can be. Lay it over your floor and lift the low end until the bubble is central. 3. Screwfix Select. Add 2 litres of the combined liquid per 20kg of screed and use your drill mixer on low speed to blend until it is smooth. 5. First off, self-levelling compound is a latex based cementitious product that provides a thin, smooth overlay when applied over rough concrete slabs or uneven floors. hope this helps . . Good ol’ shovel work. Fast Setting Screeds Allow a faster setting time to achieve foot traffic within a shorter period. The first thing to consider is the condition of your ceramic tiles. We have thought about having a. Ready to tile now, use good quality tile adhesive and grout, powdered (bagged) materials are best. Under ‘wet’ consistency toppings/overlays; 4. 85kg Latex Coverage: 5m2 at approximately 3mm thick. LATAPOXY 310 Stone Adhesive is a two component, high strength epoxy adhesive, which is formulated for the spot bonding method of tile and stone installations on vertical surfaces. 3. Most in screed UFH is water based and pumped so theres a very good changes its over screed. LVT is warmer underfoot than tiles anyway so you’d probably not notice the difference that it will make for heat travelling, any cold spots will probably feel warmer too. New-build install: £120 to £135 per square metre. Start at a broken tile or between tiles where the grout has loosened. The best solution is to uplift the tiles and dispose of accordingly, then use a specialist screed such as F-Ball Stopgap 1200 straight over the bitumen. Arditex NA can be laid from a feather edge up to at least 12mm in a single application or up to 30mm incorporating Ardex Coarse Aggregate. Ceramic tile is a building material made from clay that has been molded into tiles and. 3 Comb the mortar. a suitable primer (depending on sub floor) should also be used. Self-Levelling Floor Screeds Compound. 1. screeds to dry out to some extent prior to installation of ceramic tile finish 1. For more than 5mm it should be left for 48 hours Setcrete Latex is suitable to use over a wide range of absorbent sub floors which should first be coated with Setcrete Acrylic Primer diluted in a ratio of 1-part primer to 4. Starting at one side of the room, unroll the membrane and cut to fit the room as one would a carpet. Installation of Ceramic Tile . Post reply. 9 Step 9: Allow Grout to Dry: 7 Tiling over Water Underfloor Heating, some helpful tips. Laitance must be removed by sanding using a rotary floor sanding machine and this should be carried out between 7 and 10 days after the screed has been poured. However, the Quikrete High-Performance. £46. If you have the height you could tile over the top - its not ideal. After measuring the surface area for the backsplash, wall, or floor, planning out the exact layout of the tiles, and cutting them. Ceramic tiles: 3-5 days : 50-70mm: Carpet: 6. Search the floor for any loose or damaged tiles. Prime and smoothing compound then any LvT. 2. Remove loose tiles and leave the space open for filling with the compound. Peter Newman Flooring. Hi, quite a common problem tbh. The level of residual humidity in a screed is measured using an electric or carbide hygrometer (Fig. Primer for floor preparation prior to tiling. co. SikaCeram® Sealing Membrane W Flexible sealing and decoupling membrane used for waterproofing walls and floors under tiles in wet rooms. Only if you dont like HDB tiles and want to use your own tiles then no need for screeding. Use these tools to calculate the approximate amount and estimated cost of products needed to complete your project. Didn't blow but cracked big time The first thing to consider is the condition of the ceramic tiles. Volume. #2. Can be pumped for fast application. Below the tape there will be no paint, so your ceramic tiles will now have a perfect border. Latex floor screed is the ideal solution for levelling uneven floors and preparing surfaces for the application of floor coverings such as carpet, vinyl and ceramic floor tiles. Resilient floorcoverings can be installed after just 4 hours and ceramic tiles in as little as 3 hours. We would not advise that you use ceramic. Superior general purpose Cementitious Tile. Latex Floor Screed Thickness. A primer is a liquid product, which can be either latex, epoxy or polyurethane based, and is used to create better adhesion onto the substrate before tiling or screeding. A self levelling compound is your answer, cost about £12-£18 pounds for 25kg bags, float over the surface using a flat trowel in an even motion much like spreading tile addy. Work the chisel between the tiles and the concrete, hammering them up with a 2-lb. There is no additional water, just pour the bottle of latex in. ARDEX FEATHER FINISH is ideal for patching and smoothing minor surface damage to levelling and smoothing compounds i. 1-2007 – Ceramic Tiles; Part 1: Guide to the Installation of Ceramic Tiles 2. This time I mixed more screed and poured it over the area in question. Maximum gap measured with a slip gauge. 1. #1. A “floating” screed is an unbonded screed applied over a layer of thermal insulating material, such as expanded polystyrene or polyurethane panels (Fig. Carolann's carpets. SR1 3mm. A proper floor fitting will screed over tiles and lay karndean but I have no idea whether it would render underfloor heating useless. You can then lay your new floor on top. Why Choose Latex Screed for Overlaying on Ceramic Tiles: Exceptional Adhesion: Latex screed is known for its excellent bonding capabilities. I’m here to talk about latex floor screed. If the plyboard has been pulled down in some area because of the screws when securing it a levelling compound might. Only really suitable for domestic loose lay vinyl. 6 mm/m) can contribute to problems. Self-leveling underlayment is a great choice under any tiled floor, but it’s the absolute best choice when installing tile over an in-floor heating system. SikaCeram®-260 StarFlex Deformable tile adhesive with lightweight fillers. It pours wet and then dries to create a solid flat surface that is highly durable. ”Information Paper from IHS BRE Press provides practical guidance for architects and specifiers. nThis floor screed is a versatile smoothing compound for levelling uneven floors before laying decorative floor coverings. Total Time: 2 wks, 1 day - 2 wks, 2 days. For instance, if there is a lump on the wooden floor, you can use this option. Before tilling, ensure that. Check out our website and and contact us for more information. Line walls and pillars with compressible material. Fibreglass * Prime. Tiling onto green screeds or concrete. Please help !!! I've had a 4mm-5mm latex screed laid using mapei renovation screed as I was advised this was the best option for a final floor finish as I was only left with about 7-8mm to work with as a microcement floor I had laid had gone wrong. Over ceramic tile:It’s recommended to use a primer when tiling on a wooden floor, to ensure the best possible surface for the adhesive to bond with. Checkatrade offers the following guide: Electric underfloor heating cost. Before you tackle how to tile an uneven floor, it’s really important to use a good primer i. Working Time: 6 - 7 hrs. Any undulations in solid floors must be patched using a self levelling compound and feather edged to the surrounding area. Work the chisel between the tiles and the concrete, hammering them up with a 2-lb. Application examples:The topic ‘Asbestos floor tiles’ is closed to new replies. As a rough guide, laying a conventional sand/cement screed costs around £15/m2, increasing by around £5/m2 when delivered ready-mixed. The second batch was slightly more watery but it has solved the problem of the dip. A latex screed is a mix of powder, and liquid latex poured over a concrete slab to provide a flat, level surface. There are two types of screeds - Bonded and Unbonded. Economical: Suitable for tiling on fresh screed. ceramics I don’t know. Screeding over ceramic tiles. 1 to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Latex / screed info please. . You just need to apply a contract grade epoxy DPM, sandwiched between 2 layers of appropriate latex. If you use a paint sprayer, it is recommended to use a. oogzy Member. The next part of the process entails purchasing your vinyl flooring and adhesive product. 710 Febflor can easily. So it is best not to use self-leveling concrete or compound over existing vinyl tile. Handyandy Screwfix Select. 5 litres per 20kg bag of screed. Go to product. Like 1. over concrete before placing a ‘semi-dry’ consistency traditional mortar bed (no minimum thickness); 2). Tiles Installation and Fixing Procedure. #1. Apply evenly one coat of primer (for mix ratio see step 2. 1. Discussion in 'Subfloor Preparation' started by bournemouth, Oct 31, 2011. Over time, an increase in stress build-up will make the tiles more likely to pop. Bonded. Professionals often prefer using the 2-part compound since it provides faster results and has a shorter. Adding a little extra water to a thick mix can make it spread easier, might increase drying time slightly. More Information. This is because the latter generally reacts to external influences, such as temperature or humidity, with stronger expansion behaviour. BS EN 12004 C2F Adhesive. They come in thicknesses ranging from 2 millimeters (about 1/16 inch) to 8. Use a 3/4- or 1-in. Porous unglazed clay or stone tiles, on the other hand, require no additional preparation. But applying self-leveling concrete over old vinyl tile is not a good choice. commences. Go to product. The correct way to this job would be to lift all the floor tiles, lay marine plyboard down and secure it with screws. ARDITEX NA can be applied on all common subfloors such as concreteStep 4: Mix Mortar. Over the years one side has very slightly moved out of sync with the other and using a thicker bed would have lost any irregularities in the surface. Use latex screed. Epoxy DPM * Existing Adhesive Residues. Latermix Cem Classic and Maxi are no fine screeds based on expanded clay LWA and are quick drying even in high depth. :thumbsup. Tile keeps getting bigger and bigger. Tiling floorboards with wood effect tiles offers a variety of benefits over natural wood, including being more durable, and easier to maintain and keep clean. Before laying ceramic tiles or natural stone onto a cement/sand screed, the screed should be covered and cured for 7 days followed by a further 14 days of continual air drying; a longer period. Lee Allen New Member. can i latex screed over the whole lot without removing the cork tiles which are very well adhered to the quarry tiles? or 2. Scraping the screed over the newly applied self-leveling latex compound will help to spread it evenly over the floor, ensuring it fills up every dip. If the ceramics are bonded firmly to the floor you could apply primer (P131) and latex over the top. application of an impermeable layer beneath tile and bedding to prevent water penetration into. In order to check the level of your floor, use a long spirit level (2m is ideal). Now mark, with a pencil or felt tip, the corner of tile 1, where it meets tiles 11, 12 and 13 onto the floor . The function of a primer is to prepare the surface and increase the bond. mortar. pnfl. If you're installing vinyl plank flooring over an existing ceramic tile floor, check that the grout lines are no larger than 1/4. All these products are water-resistant and help to seal the surface against moisture. The subsequent application of the tile adhesive is made easier and more cost effective by removing the need to pack out dips and uneven areas with excess product. 1. However, I contacted a specialist anyway, and we are looking at £400 + VAT to remove the tiles. Discussion in 'Subfloor Preparation' started by SandyFloor, May 30, 2011.